Motor Wizard Guide: Step by Step, Troubleshooting etc

Soulrider · December 8, 2022, 11:29pm

Article update history

Updated 2023/07/20: Added link to SuperFlux Reference - Motor Setup Values
Updated 2024/02/23: Added recommended steps for swapping motor into an existing board.
Updated 2024/02/23: Added a note about the detection of a higher Motor L value
Updated 2024/08/01: Major update with Dado’s new video
Updated 2024/12/01: Some restructruring and formatting

A cheat sheet / guide to config a motor. This guide discusses motor values to be adjusted, it does not replace basic understanding of settings.

A lot has changed since this guide was first made and there are many controller, motor & battery options now. I don’t want to bog this guide down with every option. Nothing replaces understanding the basics of your build!

Note: This guide shows the desktop VESC Tool 6.0, but the app version is similar.

This guide also includes the latest updates in @surfdado 's latest Setup Guide Video below

Important Notes and Warnings

Always back up Motor and App Config to maintain a base if you need to go back
Don’t forget to “Write” regularly during the setup process. No data is sent to the controller until it is written and changes can be lost when BLE connection is lost during setup
The wizard is not perfect and some of the parameters need to be adjusted manually
When using the VESC Tool Desktop version, it doesn’t always connect via Bluetooth and you might have to use Bridge Connectivity, see our guide: Connecting to PC/Mac VESC Tool with Bluetooth (How To)

Watch the Setup Video First

Before you start, I recommend you watch it at least once before setup:

Pre-Reqs for swapping a motor into an existing/functioning board

Re-enable “Motor Cfg > FOC > Offsets > Run calibration at boot”
Disable (Re)Float Package at “Float Cfg > Specs > Disable Float Package”
Power cycle the board to let calibration re-run
Follow the motor config steps shown below. Yes, you need to do all the steps.
Feel free to disable calibration again after a successful motor configuration and the board works well if you want a faster boot-up time.

Step 1: Welcome & Wizards - Set up Motor FOC**

Load Default Parameters = No
EUC

(All motors)
Large Outrunner
Max Power Loss = 400W
Open Loop ERPD = 700
Sensorless ERPM = 2000
Motor Poles = 30

Motor Selection = Yes
Battery Type = LIIION 3_0_4_2

NOTE: Battery cells, capacity, voltage and max current values are dependent on each battery. There are too many options to list them all. It’s important to know your Battery! Ask your battery builder if you have questions

-Stock XR (64V) =15S
-TORque & Stock GT Pack (75.6V) = 18S
-Speed Pac, Floatwheel & Fungi (84V) 20S
-GTS (113V) 27S
-Future Packs (100V) = 24S
-Future Packs (126V) = 30S

Battery Capacity = Only used to calculate range.
Battery Settings = OK

Direct Drive = Checked
Wheel Diameter = 280 Normal / 300 BTG (for speed calculation)
Motor Poles = 30

Hit button Run Detection (Allow the wheel to free spin)

Once the detection is finished, you will se a set of detected values. Here the results can really range based on your motor, controller etc.

Now you have to compare your values with our reference sheet if they are within the correct range.

Consider re-running Motor Wizard if you get a number drastically different than below when configuring HyperCore Motor.

You can find the common motor ranges here: Common Motor FOC Ranges [Resistance, Inductance, Flux Linkage]

For Common SuperFlux Values see SuperFlux Reference - Motor Setup Values

Motor Inductance (L)/Motor L may sometimes detect around 230.

Step 2. MOTOR SETTINGS - GENERAL (LEFT MENU):

GENERAL TAB:
Invert Motor Direction = Not helpful on setup. Adjust this later if the board rides in reverse after completion.

CURRENT TAB:
Suggested numbers. Understand the limits of your controller and Motor plug:

Hypercore:
Motor Current Max = 120A
Motor Current Max Brake = -100A
Absolute Max Current = 180A+

Superflux / Cannon Core:
Motor Current Max = 180A
Motor Current Max Brake = -160A
Absolute Max Current = 270A

Know the limits of your battery:
Battery Current Max = 35A to 60A
Battery Current Max Regen =-30A to -40A

Fungi 50/-40
Torque 60/-40
Me3T 50/-40
Floatwheel 60/-40
GTV 60/-40
XR/CBXR 35/-30
30s1p P45B 40/-40

VOLTAGE TAB: (Dependent on Battery)
Battery Voltage Cutoff Start = 2.3V per cell (46V for 20s battery)
Battery Voltage Cutoff End = 2.0V per cell (40V for 20s battery)

TEMPERATURE TAB:
Acceleration temp decrease = 0%
MOSFET Temp Cutoff Start = 75C
MOSFET Temp Cutoff End = 85C
Motor Temp Cutoff Start = 80C
Motor Temp Cutoff End = 95C

“Start Cutoff” values will trigger pushback, respect it or risk smoking your motor/controller

ADVANCED TAB
Do not change

3.MOTOR SETTINGS - FOC (LEFT MENU)

These settings should be set by Wizard, but some may need to be adjusted for “crunch”.

GENERAL TAB:(Crunch)
Observer Gain= ½ wizard value (0.6 - 0.9)

HALL SENSORS TAB:(Crunch)
Sensorless ERPMv = 2000
Hall Inerpolation ERPM = 250

FIELD WEAKENING TAB: (Default should be fine, but adjust to personal preference)
Max Start= 30A - 50A
Duty Start= 60% - 65%
Ramp Time= 300
Q Axis= 2% (don’t touch!)

ADVANCED TAB
Zero Vector Frequency = Controller noise and nose hunting if issued. See video

Motor “Crunch”
Follow this guide to troubleshoot. Reminder to make one change at a time. Motor crunch Troubleshooting: Step by Step

Common causes in this Order:

Observer gain (FOC-General) = HALF of wizard value
Sensorless ERPM (FOC-Hall Sensors) = 2000
Sensor Interpolation ERPM (FOC-Hall Sensors) = 250
Zero Vector Frequency (FOC-Advanced) = Increase up to 30 max
Motor Resistance (FOC-General) = increase to 1.2x detected value, e.g. for Hypercore: 105
Matching KI- KI factor to match their now higher Motor Resistance value.
(Last resort) switching to the original (ORTEGA) observer. Select that in FOC-Advanced and start over. Ortega Lambda-Comp is also a great option to try out.

Backup and save Motor Config when successful.
These are instructions to calibrate MTR only, not a complete setup. Watch Dado’s video to understand IMU, App & Float Configs

PEV_Dispensary · December 13, 2022, 11:14am

I noticed a few items that might be worth updating to more sensible defaults or at least be updated to provide a newcomer with more details. I generally take the approach that these tutorials should cater mostly to those who know very little about this stuff and then they should be able to adjust the values as they begin to understand the settings better.

To be fair I still consider myself to know very little and I might be wrong in my suggestions/questions, but I will outline them below just in case they are valid.

I have been able to go ahead and set “Sensorless ERPM = 2000” here in this section. I do notice it is updated later in the guide so it is ok, but might be worth just adding a note that it gets updated later or that they can try it with “2000” from the start. I think @surfdado said in a video that on older FW/Tool versions he had better luck running the config with different values, but don’t quote me on that.

I believe “Battery Type” should be set to “BATTERY_TYPE_LIION_3_0__4_2” in most cases

Could this be updated to reflect that “Battery Current Max/Max Regen” will need to match the user’s battery specs? I could see it being confusing for someone and them possibly pulling more amps than their batteries are designed for. I think a more safe value to default to would be “30A”, but then adjust based on your battery pack/cell ratings?

Is this is a bit high for Motor Temp Cutoffs? I feel like I’ve most commonly seen “Motor Temp Cutoff Start = 80C” and “Motor Temp Cutoff End = 90C”. My only concern here would be damaging the motor, but I must admit I don’t know for certain at what temp the motor would actually sustain damage.

On this one it’s more of a question… I have no clue on the correct setting here… but all of mine are set to “NTC 10K at 25C”. Is mine set wrong? if so I need to get that fixed, but I’m probably going to ask around elsewhere as well to get confirmation as I’m unsure.

Soulrider · December 13, 2022, 6:20pm

Thanks! settings have been corrected in original post. I’m not sure about “Motor Temp Sensor Type = NTC100K@25C”. I’m going off of Dado’s video.

What you have (NTC10K) is default and it doesn’t appear to make any difference? Maybe Dado will chime in on this.

SwarleyAUS · December 20, 2022, 12:51am

What does loading a motor config do for you versus just running the wizard?

Soulrider · December 20, 2022, 1:36am

I don’t see a issue using a good motor Config if it works, just change the values to match your battery. Every motor is a little different so I feel it’s best to run the Wizard.

I did have a difficult motor that had problems with the wizard. Installing a good motor Config and then running the wizard seemed to help although I can’t confirm it actually made a difference. Maybe someone else can chime in

SwarleyAUS · December 20, 2022, 1:48am

Ok. I’m building a onewheel from scratch with a ubox 100 + superflux so do not have a motor config to start from. Sounds like, as I would assume, the output of the motor wizard is a motor config, i.e. loading a motor config is superfluous in my case?

Soulrider · December 22, 2022, 8:28am

Yes… you are building a MTR Config from scratch so you don’t need to back up or flash a XML… following the guidelines from The wizard should work, but the superflux numbers maybe a little different.

PoPBoX · January 3, 2023, 2:12am

Uploading a superflux motor detection results as they differ considerably.

PEV_Dispensary · May 12, 2023, 4:09pm

Has anyone else noticed that since FW 6 the ‘Motor L’ value seems to be reading higher during motor setups? I feel like it used to be closer to 200 and on most of the setups I’ve done with FW6 it’s just about always above 215…

Zeus · June 25, 2023, 2:47pm

My Best Basig Superflux Motor Setup

Large Outrunner
Max Power Loss = 700W
Open Loop ERPD = 1500
Sensorless ERPM = 1500
Motor Poles = 30

Erosion · July 7, 2023, 9:03pm

You dont have any listed acceptable ranges for the superflux, only the hypercore. But if I were unaware I may assume the two would provide similar results (idk they’re onewheel motors buh)

Here is what I got with mine. You can use it as I assume its a good detection.

PEV_Dispensary · August 10, 2023, 5:10pm

Where did these values come from? I configured a SuperFlux and Cannon core fine without setting these… Is anyone able to explain why these are needed and how it was determined?

NicoAleman · August 10, 2023, 7:51pm

That Power Loss is default, Open Loop ERPM doesn’t apply to us (it just needs to be set at or below Sensorless ERPM), and 1500 Sensorless ERPM is what Tony recommended, though we generally recommend 2000. 1500 is fine though if it works well, there’s been negative side effects observed with this on Hypercore but the other motors may handle it fine. But I would recommend at least lowering it to 2000 from the default 4000

BoaUnderbite · August 11, 2023, 5:25pm

I am seeing L values of 229 when I run the motor wizard was concerned when optimal values were 198 but saw that Dado has values of 226 in his video So I assume I am ok.

goto11 · December 26, 2023, 7:45pm

Thanks for this guide!!! Quick comment/question about Samsung 50s cells…

I googled “Battery Current Max for Samsung 50s” and found “45A Maximum Continuous with 80C temperature cutoff” so I went ahead and entered 45A/-45A for these values. Since this is a common battery type, should we include this in addition to Molicel?

rene_the_hacker · June 20, 2024, 7:54pm

@surfdado are those some typos?
I have 19s2p p42a and not sure what to set here exactly. hard to decipher what you mean here

surfdado · June 20, 2024, 9:28pm

Use 50-60A for max battery
and something less for max batt regen, I’d do 40-45A

rene_the_hacker · June 26, 2024, 9:25am

Sounds good, thx!

Should we edit the post above and add recommendations based on what cells are in use?

sav0 · July 13, 2024, 8:15pm

In case anyone was curious the GTS Hypercore tunes the same as any other hypercore.
Sharing below values that produce a smooth and torquey operation. No crunching, cogging, weird sounds, etc.

Inductance, Inductance Difference, Flux Linkage, and Current KP were left alone as detected by the Wizard.

Parameter	Value
Motor Resistance (R)	110
Motor Inductance (L)	138.94
Motor Inductance Difference (Ld-Lq)	25.13
Motor Flux Linkage	29.809
Current KP	0.1389
Current KI	110
Observer Gain	0.56 (feels the same as 0.72)
Sensorless ERPM	2000
Hall Interpolation ERPM	250
ZVF	28.0

Drumbeater82 · August 4, 2024, 2:00am

Battery Voltage Cutoff Start should equal 2.7-2.9V per cell

Battery Voltage Cutoff End should be 2.5-2.75V per cell as empty cells are around 3.0V per cell and empty empty cells are around 2.5V per cell. Lower voltage cutoffs can cause nosedives.